Not sure if my post will stay here as this forum is sponsored by Motodepoo.

TLDR: I caught [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention] cheating red-handed, charging 2.5 times for the services they rendered. They confessed to it, promised to refund all labor costs. But when they came to know that I escalated it to Kawasaki EU, the owner of the establishment blamed me for blackmailing them.

I made this post a couple of months back - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=110718
At that point, I founded it really strange that the sole Kawasaki dealer would refuse to repair a new motorcycle unless I went through insurance.

Fast forward to this Tuesday, I went to get my motorcycle serviced from [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention] . But when I went to pick it up, I was presented with a huge invoice. I found it really strange that a regular service with oil change would cost that much. The invoice included 2,5 hours of labor (wtf!).

Well, little did they know that I happen to have a GPS tracker which logs all motorcycle movement, vibrations, speed, and parking. My tracker showed a movement of 56-58 min, and the rest of it was just parking outside the showroom (also note, it was raining that day).

I confronted Kawasaki Estonia aka [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention] aka Heladora Trading OÜ by immediately calling them and asking for an explanation. They were very fumbled and immediately told me that they'll call me back asap. Well, they didn't and then they didn't take my call. This infuriated me and I immediately asked for a response via email cc'ing Kawasaki EU, telling them that if they don't reply I'll share it on social media.

I got the following reply -

Hello

sorry first!

yes indeed you are right and it is very good that you pointed this out

that the working time is indicated more than it took.

We can offer you the following maintenance without pay.
(maintenance supplies must be paid for)

The email reply above, to any normal person, would read - we will not charge you for the maintenance, will refund it to you, but you still have to pay for parts and consumables. I agreed to it and didn't want to escalate it or share it on social media.

But this immediately destroyed the credibility of [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention] and I questioned them about my last service where they charged me 1,7 hours. They didn't offer any good response and I just asked them to refund the charges as they mentioned in the mail.

Fast forward to today, they send me EUR 39 i.e. labor charge for 1 hour. I got really infuriated as they promised to refund the maintenance, and if not full at least for 1,5 hours of overcharging.

I call [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention] and was told that they don't want to refund but rather meant to make my next maintenance free . After hearing this I called the owner of [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention]. Well, to my utter surprise the first thing this person rudely told me was, "How much money do you want from me? As you are blackmailing us by involving Kawasaki EU as well", "Do you have a camera as well to tell how many people were working on your motorcycle", "I don't know what my employee said about confessing to overcharging".

I was really startled by this response. I told him clearly that I just want back what they overcharged me and that had wrote to me that they'll refund me full maintenance. But he kept getting ruder and saying that I am blackmailing them and I should tell my demand.

On the other hand, I had reached out to Kawasaki EU (after much effort) which went hilariously unexpected. The person in Netherlands HQ was clearly not interested to take care of this, he told me that the owner of [mention]MOTODEPOO[/mention] has had no complaints and complies with all trainings. When I told him that I have proof and that they confessed to it, he refused to believe me. Instead, he suggested that I call them again and reach an agreement.

This was the most horrible experience I have ever had in my two decades of biking.

I read your first post about paint repair and also this post and I think that the most problem is your own attitude.
God save bike shops from customers like you

mx77 kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 17:45

I read your first post about paint repair and also this post and I think that the most problem is your own attitude.
God save bike shops from customers like you

What's wrong with my attitude? That I confronted them that they overcharged me or that they were not willing to give a service that I want to pay for without going through insurance?

Ma VIST olen kuulnud sellist asja kui tehase poolsed normtunnid mingi töö tegemiseks. Seega , kui mitu mehhaanikut kellegi rattaga hullult müravad (seltsis segasem) ja saavad töö tunniga tehtud, mis sellest siis järeldada? Kas kiiresti ja kahekesi töötanud mehed saavad poole vähem palka, sest ratta andurid värisesid ainult ühe tunni.
Kui normtund tööle on 2h, siis selle eest maksad, kui just ei ole mingit erilist kokkulepet.
Analoogne teema on vähemalt ühes autode margiesinduses. Hoolduse hind on üks ja see kas ootad 2h või expressis 1 h on sinu valida. Kui mehhaanik on pädev ja suudab oluliselt kiiremini teha kui normtund, siis respect.

This is a forum for avid bikers and I think that everyone here knows how much effort and time oil and oil filter change would take (as invoice). I just present my facts here and I did all communication with them over mail. They acknowledged that the bike was not serviced for 2,5 hours and I guess an establishment like that doesn't commit mistakes with invoices.

The factory should give standard time for oil change and etc. and the fact that you personally can do it faster, doesn’t matter. Same is with your tracking. If factory gives 2,5h then it is so and you will be charged so, doesn’t matter what you tracked or recorded. I don’t say that factory gives 2,5h. Maybe yes, maybe not. Just checked my invoice from Honda dealer, time 2,2h on invoice. Don’t know exact details, but normally “regular service” is not just oil change. They control brakes and etc. too. So if there was 2 mechanics at the same time, then yes the total time was shorter. Once again, I do not know details and facts, so I don’t blame you or Motodepoo.
But, to avoid any misunderstandings with Motodepoo or some other dealers in the future, my recommendation for you is simple - next time before you give your bike for service, just ask the cost of service and what this includes. Simple. I do so and so far no surprises and no need to track or spy how often someone moved my bike.

Well, i'm not taking any sides in this story, but all workshope's ( Like Motodepoo ) have bills and salaries to pay. You can always simply ask before, how much it cost and then make a best decision for you.

M.T. kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 18:43

If factory gives 2,5h then it is so and you will be charged so, doesn’t matter what you tracked or recorded.

I hope it s not like that.
If you do the job half a time, then I want to ask, are you god level mechanic or you just did half what was necessary, but charged me anyway.

Also many mechanics involved in one oil change service session is quite bs story.

Motodepoo is good reputation bike store so far, so it is hard to believe, that you told all the story as it happened.

Madlobster kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 19:42

Also many mechanics involved in one oil change service session is quite bs story.

As I said, regular service is not just oil change, but includes some other services/jobs too. Is it possible that 2 mechanics can do different jobs with 1 bike or not, I don’t know. I’m not as specialist.
Second option is really as you said, some moves are undone and from there comes time saving. Hopefully authorized dealers don’t do this. But from cars side, I know the real cases where charged fully, but some parts are not changed.

Which mileage maintenance was it? There is sufficient information online, to see the amount of work that needs to be done, besides oil and filter changes, based on that.
For example, first maitenance @1000km, dealer must check idle speed, throttle control system, fuel system, cooling system, clutch operation, brake system, brake operation, steering, bolts, nuts, fasteners and replace engine oil.
The list gets longer, as mileage increases.
And I agree with people who have brought this out before. You can not compare actual hours spent at the garage, with labor hours.

Kuulge rahvas, tsikkel seisis 1,5h lihtsalt väljas,vihma käes
Muidugi pannakse max. norm.tunnid, sama "äri" käib ka autode hooldusega, tulge maa peale, + kullast filtrid, õlid ja vedelikud.

edu

PS! Ei viitsi in english kirjutada, tarbin

yeekim kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:10

Kuulge rahvas, tsikkel seisis 1,5h lihtsalt väljas,vihma käes
Muidugi pannakse max. norm.tunnid, sama "äri" käib ka autode hooldusega, tulge maa peale, + kullast filtrid, õlid ja vedelikud.

edu

PS! Ei viitsi in english kirjutada, tarbin

Ise nägid, et seisis?

mx77 kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:27

Spoiler

yeekim kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:10

Kuulge rahvas, tsikkel seisis 1,5h lihtsalt väljas,vihma käes
Muidugi pannakse max. norm.tunnid, sama "äri" käib ka autode hooldusega, tulge maa peale, + kullast filtrid, õlid ja vedelikud.

edu

PS! Ei viitsi in english kirjutada, tarbin

Ise nägid, et seisis?

no see vist oli välja tulnud selle udupeene jälgimissüsteemiga äkki ???

yeekim kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:10

Kuulge rahvas, tsikkel seisis 1,5h lihtsalt väljas,vihma käes
Muidugi pannakse max. norm.tunnid, sama "äri" käib ka autode hooldusega, tulge maa peale, + kullast filtrid, õlid ja vedelikud.

edu

PS! Ei viitsi in english kirjutada, tarbin

Sul on alati võimalus avada oma garaaz, soetada seadmed, maksta renti või osta kinnisvara, koolitada end, jne-jne ning teha töid sama kiiresti kui F1 rehvivahetus ning € küsida ainult reaalse tööaja eest. Lisaks ka kuluosasid müüa kliendile 0 juurdehindlusega. Usu, tööd oleks sul sitaks ning me kõik oleks su ukse taga ootel. Ka need kes täna raha kokkuhoiu nimel ise oma rattaid hooldavad, ka nemad oleks kohal.
PS! Ka ei viitsi ENG kasutada, rumm ees

Madlobster kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:35

Spoiler

mx77 kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:27

yeekim kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:10

Kuulge rahvas, tsikkel seisis 1,5h lihtsalt väljas,vihma käes
Muidugi pannakse max. norm.tunnid, sama "äri" käib ka autode hooldusega, tulge maa peale, + kullast filtrid, õlid ja vedelikud.

edu

PS! Ei viitsi in english kirjutada, tarbin

Ise nägid, et seisis?

no see vist oli välja tulnud selle udupeene jälgimissüsteemiga äkki ???

Pole vahet mida luureinfo näitas. Kui tootjatehas annab antud hoolduse normajaks 2,5h, siis nii ka kasseeritakse. Oluline on see, et kõik kohustuslik ja vajalik sai ka tehtud ja sealt see ajavõit ei tulnud. Viisakas klienditeenindus eeldab muidugi seda, et ka kliendile see asjaolu ilusti ära selgitatakse. Kas seda tehti või mitte, seda ei tea. Hetkel ju 1 osapoole versioon siin ainult.

M.T. kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:41

.....

Pole vahet mida luureinfo näitas. Kui tootjatehas annab antud hoolduse normajaks 2,5h, siis nii ka kasseeritakse. Oluline on see, et kõik kohustuslik ja vajalik sai ka tehtud ja sealt see ajavõit ei tulnud. Viisakas klienditeenindus eeldab muidugi seda, et ka kliendile see asjaolu ilusti ära selgitatakse. Kas seda tehti või mitte, seda ei tea. Hetkel ju 1 osapoole versioon siin ainult.

Sama kehtis(vähemalt vanasti) ka "ületundide" kohta- norm on see ja...
Ma pidin oma Volvoga kreepsud saama, kui 1,5h töö läks üle 5h- ootasin ja ootasin kõnet + arvet
Tuli kõne, meister rääkis ära ja arve oli 1,5h

Did you order scheduled maintenance or just oil change?

Why do you refer to the rainy day?

yeekim kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:50

Spoiler

M.T. kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 21:41

.....

Pole vahet mida luureinfo näitas. Kui tootjatehas annab antud hoolduse normajaks 2,5h, siis nii ka kasseeritakse. Oluline on see, et kõik kohustuslik ja vajalik sai ka tehtud ja sealt see ajavõit ei tulnud. Viisakas klienditeenindus eeldab muidugi seda, et ka kliendile see asjaolu ilusti ära selgitatakse. Kas seda tehti või mitte, seda ei tea. Hetkel ju 1 osapoole versioon siin ainult.

Sama kehtis(vähemalt vanasti) ka "ületundide" kohta- norm on see ja...
Ma pidin oma Volvoga kreepsud saama, kui 1,5h töö läks üle 5h- ootasin ja ootasin kõnet + arvet
Tuli kõne, meister rääkis ära ja arve oli 1,5h

Jep, see ongi norm. Kui meister on jumal või siis käpard, see ei ole kliendi asi ja tasustamine käib selle järgi mis on antud teenuse puhul tootjatehase norm. Juhtub ka erandeid, kus üritatakse ületunnid kliendi kraesse ajada. Üllatuste vältimiseks ongi soovitav enne sõiduki hooldusesse andmist teenuse hind üle küsida.

Seda mainisingi et see on ühe osapoole versioon asjast.

Kui aga ilma depoota asja arutada siis da fak nii see asi ikka ei käi, et vahetad õli ära kirjutad 3h arvele ja lükkad ratta välja.
Kui see sinu jaoks on ok, siis mo pärast maksa.
Kui tehas on ette näinud aja siis on ta ka ette näinud tegevuse. Enamasti (ok mitte 100% alati aga enamasti) tuleb ajas püsimiseks suht nobedalt liigutada. Enamasti nii auto kui tsikli teeninduses on üks mees auto peal (jaa jälle mitte alati aga enamasti, oleneb töödest jms)
Seega jääb ainutl kax versiooni. Tõesti oli mitu meest asja kallal (no ma ei usu no lihtsalt ei usu tööde järjekorrad on enamus teenindustes väga pikad ja ei ole nii et tunked istuvad aknalaual näpp ninas ja kliendi saabudes kõik ratta kallale kargava) ja seetõttu saigi kiiremini tehtud, või loeti sealt manualist ainult seda osa, kui palju kirja võib panna ja see osa, mida teha tuleb jäeti lugemata.

Ühesõnaga täna ma ei arva, et depoo mingi totaalse jamaga tegeleb. Ja nende selgitus on üldse siit puudu (nad ei pruugigi seda siia panna)
Rääkisin põhimõtteliselt

In general I´m very carefully in crucifying somebody.
If Dinosore is telling the truth, then one thing is for shure. The involved service manager / workshop acceptance has done a very poor job.
It seems to me that there has been no information/communication with the client before performing how much time it takes and how much it will approximately cost. How it can happen that a client is shocked by an hugh invoice? If there is a reason showing up during the service that the invoice might look different than the forecast - where is the problem - just call to the owner of the bike and let him agree to the higher amount (or explain at least the reason for the increase...) - maybe he won´t be happy, but at least loud discussions in the show-room or embarrassing discussions or looking for add. required money to pay the bill are not taking place.

WTF this guy has done? Workshop acceptance is a qualified job - and this case is not looking like a professional work

To avoid missunderstandings - I haven´t done any business with these guys, no positive or negative experience. I also don´t know Dinosore.

Huvitav oleks näha seda arvet. Et mis ulmesummast siis jutt käib. Ja see värviteema .. Nagu eelpool korduvalt üteldud- kui oled hinnatundlik siis küsi alati mida tehakse ja mis see maksab!

Ain kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 22:11

Huvitav oleks näha seda arvet. Et mis ulmesummast siis jutt käib. Ja see värviteema .. Nagu eelpool korduvalt üteldud- kui oled hinnatundlik siis küsi alati mida tehakse ja mis see maksab!

"Fast forward to today, they send me EUR 39 i.e. labor charge for 1 hour. I got really infuriated as they promised to refund the maintenance, and if not full at least for 1,5 hours of overcharging."

So do the math.....

yeekim kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 22:16

Ain kirjutas: ↑24 Sept 2021, 22:11

Huvitav oleks näha seda arvet. Et mis ulmesummast siis jutt käib. Ja see värviteema .. Nagu eelpool korduvalt üteldud- kui oled hinnatundlik siis küsi alati mida tehakse ja mis see maksab!

"Fast forward to today, they send me EUR 39 i.e. labor charge for 1 hour. I got really infuriated as they promised to refund the maintenance, and if not full at least for 1,5 hours of overcharging."

So do the math.....

Pean silmas arve summat palju kõik kokku maksis ja mida tehti.

No kui lihtsalt õlivahetus, siis miski 150-170€ ehk.

Thanks to everyone who is taking an interest and sharing their opinion. I know how it must seem, a foreigner comes here once in a while to badmouth a reputed dealer. But I am thankfully fortunate enough to not take this from monetary value, as a couple hundred isn't going to dent my life, but from the side of principle and honesty.

A few things:

1. I checked with the service manager before handing the bike about the work that will be done, he said - only oil change as this was my second service at barely 500-600km after first and at 2800km.

2. I am not bothered that it cost me something and neither I am looking for any fame or extortion money. I am really bothered that they took me for some gullible person and thought they can get away with it.

3. I am attaching all the images of the logs, invoice, call from the service (personal info removed) to prove to you that I have a backup for my claims. When my bike was parked (13:12) i.e. taken off the stand or started (15:17), when they parked it back (16:16), and when they called me to pick it up (16:19). You can make a judgment for yourself who's in the wrong.

4. The invoice shows all the elements of the service, I have removed one thing that was bought separately from their store.

5. The call log also shows that I was the one trying to reach out to them and they didn't take my call after I confronted them. Again, this is not a mistake, companies don't accidentally put extra hours on invoices and then take the money.

[mention]bitter[/mention] I mentioned rainy day because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that on a normal day, they could have done some work on the motorcycle in the parking lot.

[mention]eetarga[/mention] Thanks for giving me the benefit of a neutral voice, it's really appreciated in hostile chaos where I am blamed for standing up for what's wrong.

[mention]mx77[/mention] you still haven't told me what's wrong with my attitude.

PS: I had an amazing experience with Kickasstuning, thanks to the guys who recommended it to me. He fixed my bike perfectly, was very professional, communicated well, and we even collaborated on sourcing the parts as things were getting delayed.

Yeah, its pretty clear from the receipt what service has been done, so thats all quite simple. Basically nothing but oil change, as adding coolant is realistically a 2minute thing.
The only actually reasonable way of sticking such a charge to a client in this case would have included 2 very speficid steps/things. 1) a detailed explanation of the reason(s) WHY you were changing oil (or doing whatever the fck you were doing) for 2.5 hours. 2) that explanation or at the very least a notification about the necessity of spending such time on an oil change should be communicated to the client BEFORE going ahead with it. This is all common sense I would say, so it seems that it has been done on purpose.

By the way, a full hour of movement during an oil service, what the heck is that??? Not sure if I understood it correctly but does that mean that the bike was actually driven around somewhere for an hour? Thats some pretty serious crap all in itself

I think the movement is them moving the bike inside, back outside, testing it in the parking lot, and then parking it back. I'm sure there was a purpose to move the bike around and one hour can be justified.

Contrary to what people think here, I'm quite reasonable. I would have understood if they said that we have a policy that we charge a minimum of 2 hours, no matter what work we do.

Also being a mechanical engineer who has worked with tier-one OEMs of Honda and Suzuki two wheelers, Toyota and Honda motors, I'd like to think that I know what I'm talking about.

Tee mis tahad aga minu arvamus asjast algab esimesest postitusest mis puudutas värvitöid... Sealt on näha et miski on suhtumises viltu. Kui ettevõte ütleb, et ta ei tee värvitöid siis nii on. Ja kui antakse juhised pöörduda mõne värvimistöid tegeva ettevõtte poole ei ole selles midagi imelikku. Ka paljudel autoesindustel pole omal värvitöökoda ja kasutatakse alltöövõtjaid. Ehk siis juba seal oli mitte millestki probleem... Aga see on minu subjektiivne arvamus kuna ma ei tea kogu suhtluse sisu.

I'm sorry, but you're ignoring the issue at hand and trying to find fault in my attitude. But even if we go back to that incident what stuck out to me was that they said, we can do it for you if you want to use insurance but we can't do it for you if you want to pay for it yourself. They even refused to give a quote or even provide me paint shops that are authorized to work on under-warranty motorcycles until I asked for it.

Say what you want, but I think you'll have the same position as me if you were in my place.

will111 kirjutas: ↑25 Sept 2021, 03:59

Yeah, its pretty clear from the receipt what service has been done, so thats all quite simple. Basically nothing but oil change, as adding coolant is realistically a 2minute thing.

Doing my bike service in Honda dealer already 8 years and never had full list of done jobs on invoice. Invoice contains simply - oil change service X hours, oil X liters, oil filter, some other small stuff and that’s all. Nothing regarding chain control & tensioning, brake controls and etc. All this info goes to service book. So don’t stuck to invoice.
But what I did differently vs author, always asked before what they will do and how much it will cost. And not a single problem.